Top Programmer: AGI in 2025, Devin is just the beginning

Key Takeaways

programmers getting replaced with things like Devon things are accelerating so fast timelines for AGI perhaps end of next year if somebody claims that they have reached AGI how can it be proven I mean they they just interviewed women from open AI what data was used to train Sora we used publicly available data probing her where do you get your your video data from and she kept saying public sources do you think AI will eventually replace YouTubers I think it'll replace some for sure the release of Sora they're also going to put an update out for for this is an interview with Phil starkovich the co-founder of tube body and creative fuel we talk about the Dark Side of AI companies whether living forever will be possible how YouTubers should use AI when open AI Sora might get release and so much more if you watch the whole thing you'll have a massive advantage over everyone else you have more experience into YouTube space than just about anyone else so I have to ask do you think AI will eventually replace YouTubers well I sure hope not I think there's always going to be that human connection between creators and the audience I think it'll replace some for sure but definitely not all yeah probably more like the automated kind of faceless content but I agree with you like there's a lot of different jobs where the social aspect is actually more valuable than you know the economic aspect like a lot of people go to the barber to have a chat and have a conversation yeah there's something different about a human you know we're we're getting close to where it's going to be indistinguishable but um I think you'll always have that uh that connection that you'll get with a human that you can't with AI or a robot this is one of the biggest fears that a lot of creators have is will I even be relevant in 5 10 years or maybe even 3 years you know AI is advancing so fast now do you have any timeline because this is a hot topic for you know timelines for AI everybody has their predictions some people think it's s months away some people think it's decades away do you have any like rough estimate for yourself I would say for myself I don't consider myself necessarily the AI expert one thing I actually wanted to ask you is if somebody claims that they have reached AGI how can it be proven to prove it to the outside world would be to do something very impressive right I don't know if you've seen the Devon news oh yeah you've seen it yeah I think that's probably like the first version like a very early version of AGI specific to software engineering it's an autonomous agent that can do a lot of things by itself so you know if if I did have to make a prediction perhaps end of next year if I was going to if I was going to make a prediction how about you where where are you standing it's very St because I definitely see the progress speeding up so I don't want to be like on the slower end okay so it's the start of 2024 probably if we go like the safest end like the most conservative guest probably like 2029 but that's like really conservative I think for a fast guest either like late 2025 or early 2026 I would say so for those who are not familiar with your new AI tool creative fuel can you give us one sentence explanation of what the tool does and how it helps creators sure so essentially it's a browser extension that that helps train chat GPT on your channel and audience so that chat GPT understands what you're trying to accomplish gives you tailored results and then it also helps build prompts for you and so instead of having to you know paste in Long prompts or manually type in prompts you just fill out some fields and it generates a consistent prompt to give you great results yeah I I've tested a bunch and I agree it's definitely one of the best if not the best AI tools for creators by the way if you want to try creative fuel it's going to be linked in the description and no Phil is not paying me to say this it's just a really cool tool so go check it out yeah it's still early um you know just launching it right now hopefully uh help educate people as well you know how to write better prompts and how to actually interact with chat GPT better obviously since it's in ch gbt it's using either gbt 3.5 or gbt 4 but when you're generating the profile uh what llm are you using there uh we are using four so in in the background it's using open ai's API to generate the profile and have you considered trying the CLA free Opus the biggest one from anthropic not yet I think at some point we will you know the the profile that it generates is used for training on chat gbt and you know it's not extremely complex we're we're happy with the results we have right now we do need some tweaking obviously you pointed a couple things out that we need to to work on the tool is used within CH gbt it makes sense to have gbd4 generate the profile as well I was expecting you would say gbd 3.5 to you know have a faster speed and maybe say safe cost so if if you were to use gbt 3.5 then I think Hau the smallest model from the CLA free family is actually much better because it's cheaper and a lot smarter than gbd 3.5 but yeah I mean I agree gbd4 is still the king so yeah and currently we essentially run it one time when you first link your YouTube channel so it's not like we're constantly running it hitting the API a lot cost isn't really an issue he makes sense so AI is completely going to disrupt the job market what Industries and jobs do you think will be hit the hardest um yeah that's a good question I I don't know if it's going to be necessarily hit the hardest but anything kind of I think in the legal area where I think that could be hit the hardest just because lawyers are so expensive but what they do is really just looking at tax converting it into the current situation that you're dealing with I mean when you think about it like lawyers are essentially doing just rag like you know looking through a bunch of documents and giving you the most relevant responses right yeah um which seems right up ai's alley kind of what it's good at so um the only issue I see is that they might be protected a bit by laws and regulations where you know a human is still required I think that's actually going to be like the biggest friction in terms of adaptation and also like it will protect some jobs like doctors and stuff like that so even we have like AIS that are more accurate and like better at you know sporting diseases or whatever there will still be like laws and requirements for human to be in in the loop so I think some jobs maybe even in the legal sector will be still protected by this like slowness regulatory slowness but some like paralal or like lower level um legal jobs I think yeah definitely yeah sense so looking ahead how do you predict AI will transform YouTube and content creation over the next two to three years yeah I mean you know YouTube it looks like YouTube's investing a lot into Ai and uh you know some of the it'll be interesting they're they're working on some you know video generation right now um it'll be to see kind of how that compares to Sora and other things coming out uh but it does look like YouTube itself is investing a lot in AI um you know there's obviously a lot more faceless channels and with YouTube shorts um you know it's pretty easy to to hack together a few AI tools push out a lot of content so I it does seem like AI is really flooding the YouTube space um whether that's good or bad you know we'll kind of see um but yeah for the most part uh hopefully it only improve I think there's going to be a lot more content um you know some of it's going to be good some bad hopefully the the cream Rises to the to the top and and you know we all end up being able to consume better and more content um but there's also just going to be a lot more garbage to too I think on YouTube because of AI yeah I think you're right the algorithm will filter that out and you know the best videos will get recommended but I also like the observation about Sora because if you think about it YouTube has the biggest video data set out of anybody so I think Google has a really unique opportunity here to do something big yeah that that's true and I mean they they just interviewed um woman from open AI yesterday I believe and oh yeah I don't know if he's probing her where do you get your your video data from and she kept saying public sources but wouldn't get specific yeah yeah but about Google having access to YouTube and essentially an endless supply of video content I mean train from you've definitely hit on some interesting topic there because every single big AI research lab is scraping data from anywhere they get I mean that's really the gold mine that's the most important part it's even more important than compute because comput is quickly catching up I mean obviously the Nvidia Market capab exploded but the data I mean that's required to train the best models and open AI is already scraping the entire internet and they've like I don't know how many lawsuits exactly but they have multiple lawsuits going on right now over you know using copyrighted data so I definitely think they've used some videos from YouTube um if like maybe just indirectly you know because there's so many like embeddings and stuff like that on the web um I mean yeah AI companies are definitely that's probably the most most like shady part of the AI business right now is just the way big AI research Labs scrape data and get you know images videos whatever yeah and it's all you know behind the scenes nobody really knows what's going on it seems like so you just kind of have no idea what they're actually doing yeah it's also super hard to prove because with text especially with images it's like a little bit easier because I've seen some people prove that it's been trained on artists when you're like doing some specific prompt inside of mid Journey or Del 3E it could produce a very similar result to a specific image of an artist so I've seen like lawsuits trying to prove that but with text it's like I think nearly impossible yeah it's true it's no secret that AI agents are the next big thing that's why in two days I'm releasing an entire course on how to build and deploy your own AI agent if that sounds interesting to you then make sure to join my community it's the first link in the description see you inside okay so there are a lot of creators who feel weird about using AI while making their videos maybe there's some like limiting beliefs or stigmas about AI what would you say to those YouTubers who are hesitant to start using AI tools yeah I think those people are um more worried about AI replacing them and and need to think of AI as a tool just to help them create content um I mean just like any other tool if if you're if you're using Photoshop if you're using Premiere um these are all tools just to help you create content um you know you're not going to draw individual frames you can you can create animations um using software I think AI is just another tool to help you create and so um you know if you're not doing it now I I think creators are going to get passed up and you're not necessarily create or competing against ai ai you're competing against other creators using Ai and they're just you know going that much faster so um yeah I I would tell them to consider AI a tool to dive in there start learning um doesn't mean you have to use it uh there's there's so many different tools out there for different aspects of the the process of content creation that you just got to start using it seeing what's out there and giving it a try yeah I mean I've said the same thing to video editors who were worried that AI will replace them I said that's not what you should worry about you should worry about other AI editors who use five different AI tools to get like three times as much done in the same amount of time yeah yeah I mean an editor yeah instead of worrying about being replaced use those tools to I don't get more clients and andum you know results out faster okay so but but what about the people who have like some ethical dyma the thing like you know using AI makes the content inauthentic or like plastic or like you know whatever what do you think about those people um no I I definitely agree um with with that point in a lot of cases even for myself you know there's a lot of tools out there that'll you know click a button and and write an email response um and I I personally hate those tools um I've you know I've clicked it and it's like this doesn't sound like me um you know even if if you try to train it on how you talk it just feels inauthentic and um so I think if you're if you're trying to build real relationships with people communicate with people um you know then doing things yourself is definitely the way to go when it comes to content creation though um there's just a lot of parts of the process that can be streamlined automated um you know help spark ideas or you know create storyboards outlines um things like that you know it doesn't have to write your specific script but just giving you ideas outline is you you know a a step in the right direction so I think you know maybe something along those lines if you're against it I agree in many cases not to just use what AI gives you but just let it help you know spark some ideas or just create an outline to help you think about things in a different way yeah exactly because like big creators like Mr Beast they have entire teams who you know produce ideas and then he just comes in and chooses the best ones so obviously the average YouTuber cannot have a 10 person team ideating video ideas so you can use AI to do that and then choose the ones that you think will fit your channel the best and like you still have the final say like you still decide what you make right so in that case it's definitely a Time save and also like with the emails as you said it's so obvious when you get chbt generated email right it's like come on man like you could have put in more effort than that right okay so right now we have several state-of-the-art language models like gpt3 three Opus Gemini 1.0 Ultra in your opinion which of these top tier llms is best suited for creative writing and brainstorming um yeah I mean I would say I haven't done enough work with each of them to to give a good opinion on that in particular um from what I've seen other people say you know the new the new Claud three seems to be the best um you know I haven't used it myself in in writing content creation so I might ask you your opinion in this case and see what you have to say so I can learn so I would say probably CLA free is best I mean strictly talking about creative writing and brainstorming I don't know why but I feel like the open AI llms they're like kind of restricted in the brainstorming that they don't feel as like creative and as As Natural okay if I had to say top three I would say CLA three Opus number one number two um Gemini 1.0 Ultra from Google even though it's like very restricted in some ways and we've seen the you know Fiasco with the images for creative writing if it doesn't reject your prompt it's good it's pretty good for creative writing and brainstorming and then number three gbd3 gbd4 so those are the top three I would say but I mean there isn't like a huge huge difference right it's not like a difference between gbd4 and gbd3 it's more like an incremental few per difference I would say gotcha and yeah I'm looking forward to GPT 4.5 um whenever that comes out if if the rumors are true you know they came out recently um that is one nice thing that especially for someone like myself that's building tools on top of chat GPT anything they put out um that gives better content ideas responses it's just going to help us so um really excited for kind of that next step hopefully in the near future yeah I guess referring to those leaks of the article where you I think when you use duck du go it showed like a finished article for gbt 4.5 who knows you can't trust what you see these days so yeah maybe not I mean Sam ultman did kind of refer vaguely to some release coming soon but then again they have the Elon Musk lawsuit going on so again who knows you know it could be could be a few months until we see something so as we move to a post AGI world what do you think the average person can do to prepare themselves this might be another one that I'm going to ask you for your opinions and this is this is more your space I'm just uh you know a software developer building tools on top of what's out there so um if you don't mind I'm gonna ask you this one okay so I mean personally I don't have like a single answer for everybody it's more about you know the the best advice I can give any individual is to analyze their path look at their career what they're doing because a lot of like I I have a lot of friends that are my age who are in college and they're doing degrees that won't even be relevant in 5 years or whenever they graduate so I think that's the most painful part is taking like a hard look at the you know career path or even not even career it's like all the things you're doing in the day whether they will still matter right and obviously that's very hard but I think it's much better to take like a bit of discomfort today than a massive amount of discomfort in 5 years when you found that the last 5 years were essentially wasted and there are people who left left their job and stuff like that but I'm more talking about the people who pursue some career for good money right well what if that career doesn't even exist in five years like you know so I think that's probably the best advice I can give anybody is to like objectively analyze your current path and what you're doing and just try to try to learn about AI as much as possible obviously and like yeah see whether those things will be even relevant because a lot of them will not yeah that makes sense and and I guess in my field you know I'm a I do programming but I also have run run the companies that I do programming within um and you know with things like Devin and and you know potentially programmers getting replaced it's more about building the right products for the right people and it's so it's more you kind of have to go a level up from programmer to actually Builder kind of Builder thinking about the software who's it for building the right interfaces and thinking through um you know solving problems and not necessarily just being in the code writing code all day um it's more about the bigger ideas of helping people solve problems yeah I I absolutely agree I mean I'm I'm a programmer as well obviously not on your level but personally I like when it comes to like rating how good of a programmer someone is to me it's much more impressive how much you've built with programming how much you've actually accomplished instead of how many languages you know like if you memorized all the syntax in seven eight different languages like to me the best programmers are the people who actually create a product that people want to use and I think right now as you alluded to it AI will just allow more and more people to build stuff even those who aren't like super Advanced you know assembly programmers yeah absolutely and I've I've dealt with a lot of that um and and again kind of the whole Builder versus people that argue about tech stack and and what they're doing you know I I still I've actually after you know I ran Tu buddy for five or six years I got Acquired and I was we were still using the same programming languages that I had used 20 years ago um I've actually just recently started to learn some new things just to kind of just for fun to kind of expand my knowledge but uh if I want to get something built quickly I still just jump back to what I know and um I have the most fun just being able to work quickly not have to deal with new languages and things like that tell me more about that because a lot of my audience are actually programmers so which languages did you use at tubudy and which you are learning now okay um yeah I mean so tubebuddy is a browser extension and pretty much the entire extension is just essentially jQuery um so plain JavaScript jQuery um nothing nothing Advanced uh and and we had millions of users uh it held up just fine on the back end I'm AET C developer so everything um you know which to date myself I don't know 25 years ago or something you know back in Visual Basic days kind of used those up to C and um so allet backend um and then recently so after the acquisition I decided to learn uh Swift and iPhone programming and so I ended up building a little meditation app just for fun um and then one of one of the guys I work with uh kind of forced react on us which I've always been opposed to to react because it was this big mindset shift and um so I'm almost a year into learning react and getting used to it um it's fun some days some days I hate it um but uh yeah so I guess new things which you know I I suppose react is probably old now but it's new for me um and so that's where I'm at I actually learned programming on C so that was my first language and I've built a mobile game with it but now obviously since AI is so big in Python uh I'm using python most so gotcha yeah Python's something I've I've actually never written a single line of code in I I probably should start learning and playing around with it a little bit I mean it's like the most um big in the friendly language I would say like the syntax is super super easy to understand I mean like in programming if you know the basic fundamental concepts you can translate them into any other language you know yeah and with chat GPT now exactly I it'll write it for you and step you along each each yeah step away I mean I've made multiple videos like build anything with kgbt and I always explain to people like you don't have to know anything to start you can always ask jgb to explain what a for Loop is or you know what um I don't know arrays are like whatever and people are always in the comments like well but you clearly know some programming like you did this on on minute 17 like like just ask it like it it can explain anything like yeah that's funny I mean that reminds me that's how that's how we connected is I've been learning uh game programming recently for the iPhone and I was looking up a way to animate a static image and uh ran across one of your videos where you use chat GPT to to Output yeah right grids and made it and things like that that's interesting because that video was kind of um like 1,000 views for a while but recently started picking up so it's very interesting how YouTube works yeah okay so what are some of the most creative and unexpected ways you've seen creators use AI to make better videos um I'd say I don't know one one particular product that I think is really interesting is um I believe it's called descript where it'll take your audio trans transcribe it to text and then you can edit the text and uh it'll actually edit the audio and you can take out words you can add words just by editing the text script um you know it's trained on your voice so I felt like that was super creative and Well Done um where you can essentially edit text it changes the audio of your video by the way if you you're enjoying this podcast please consider subscribing it really helps out a lot and it lets me know that you want to see more videos like this if you did subscribe thank you like we've talked about faceless channels kind of the whole automation process is interesting I don't I don't necessarily love it if if if they're putting out good content that people like it's fine um I I do think it's kind of fun and interesting just a challenge to see can you automate the whole process of writing the script generating you know the video putting it all together publishing it so um I do kind of respect it in that sense that they're just kind of figuring out ways to automate it um so I think faceless channels is is probably another way but I think you you like YouTube and Tik Tok actually are a bit cracking down on that like super low effort content so either like completely like on Tik Tok there is this concept of like 200 views hell where all of your you know Tik toks get like 200 views just it like the algorithm tests it and then it never blows up so like a lot of faceless channels get in that and then basically like if you're in there for multiple months you almost have to create a new account because then Tik Tok is like okay this account posts low quality content so you know don't recommend it gotcha okay and I know YouTube is kind of cracking down on monetization and things like that and having to put thisi content yeah this is definitely true because one of my friends is running like MMA Channel and even though he's making his own content he had some like old shorts back in the day where he just reposted some Joe Rogan Clips right so even if you look at his channel now all of his videos include his face his opinions his research so it's completely normal Channel but back in the day he had like some shorts that were like less effort and when he applied for monetization when he hit um what 4,000 watch hours he got actually rejected because the uh algorithm sported that some of there were like copyrighted and then a human reviewer looked at the channel and found some you know shows that were lower effort and he got rejected for that even though like most of his videos are legit so yeah is that something where you can just delete them and and reapply you know but like even then like you know it shows that there is like some sort of um initiative from YouTube to like not want this super lowquality content spamming their platform yeah so if you had to choose just fre AI tools you could use for the rest of your life which would they [Music] be um I'm going to choose I guess first soft chat GPT is just kind of my default kind of does a little bit of everything um it's it's my comfort blanket you just go there and you just kind of know what to ask how what kind of responses you're to get it's not necessarily the best but I feel like it's still the easiest and just I know what to expect and what I'm going to get out of it um and you know open AI seems to be you know leader in the space so I'm sticking with that one um I don't use mid Journey a ton but I do feel like on the image side and hopefully video side someday they're you know they'd be my go-to um just because they seem so reliable and um Cutting Edge um seems like a good company too um I might leave a third spot open and see what comes up in the future I don't want to reserve it right now I'm going to I'm going to hang on for my third spot for a couple years and that's smart GES how about you what are your three right now I mean I I know I mentioned CLA free multiple times but I definitely think chbd is still the best I mean given the amount of things you get for a single subscription is kind of crazy right like obviously gp4 but you also get di free which is amazing images obviously not as customizable as mid Journey because in mid Journey you have a lot more control and you can create a lot more variations but for most people like delree is more than sufficient and you also get code interpreter which I think none of the other big AI tools have and that's like huge for not just programming but like testing math and you can do so many things with code right and yeah it's basically in the background I mean not many people realize how it works but it's running a jupyter notebook in the background so it can like test and install packages and test a bunch of things so code interpreter is huge uh you can also like create visualizations analyze spreadsheets like there's so many ways you can save time with that you also get the GPD store obviously where you can create your own gpts or access gpts made by others you also have like the old plugins which I mean not many people use anymore but like the amount of features you get for a single subscription I definitely think CH gbt is still the best um so what would be on my next top three I mean probably perplexity number two because it's the best research wise I mean obviously yeah for the llm they have their own proprietary llms but they are not like State ofthe art uh but you can you can like they have all the apis in the settings so you can choose gbd4 you can choose Gemini you can choose CLA free whatever you want to use and that's another like super good like it's it's the same cost it's $20 a month but like the amount of value you get and especially that you can test all the different llms in a single subscription I definitely think that would be my number two okay number three I mean probably mid journey I don't know um there's a lot of AI tools out there yeah I mean I'll go with mid Journey because like anytime I need to generate a really good AI image and I need to really customize it as I said like d free is is really good but the issue with d free is that actually C gbt writes The Prompt so it's not using your prompt because in the system prompt of CH gbt it's like there is literally like half of the system prompt is spent on delree instructions so you give it um sentence and then chbt rewrites that in into a longer delre prompt so you're not you're not actually like there's like a middleman right you're not actually creating what exactly you wanted in mid Journey though you have complete control over the content and all the images are a result of your prompt so yeah I mean mid journey is definitely my favorite AI image to right now and has been for a while yeah it'll it'll be interesting um it looked like with the release of Sora um they're also going to put an update out for Dolly maybe Dolly 4 I don't whatever they're going to call it um I'm excited there just for improvements because it it does definitely seem like it's lagging a little bit um behind the others like mid Journey on the image side do you think they'll give us Sora before the 2024 election I would say yes it it sounded like the timeline was towards the end of the year so um I mean the elections at the end of the year uh that is a good question and that's definitely a I'm sure a concern of lot of people um but I'm thinking yes how about you like initially I thought no because Sam timman said on multiple times like he doesn't want his AI tools to interfere with the election so like releasing anything that's like substantially better whether that's gb5 or Sora would potentially like go against that statement but if you think about it what not many people realize is that they will put restrictions on it like there will be guidelines and I think they'll just like go super hard on the limits where you literally cannot create images of politicians or celebrities but I think spe specifically on the politicians I think they will go like super hard on there and like restrict all the main presidential candidates so that like no there's no way to hack it so if they do that properly I mean I'm not a huge fan of like restrictions like that but from their point of view it's kind of necessary so if they do that properly I think they could release it before because you know so many people want it and it's it's been like what it's been a over a month since the Sora release so that's like over a year in the AI space so it's been forever right yeah and if it's you know if it's not this election it'll definitely be by the next election so it's it's only a matter of time um so I don't know I'm honestly I feel not even too concerned one way or the other because it's definitely going to happen for future elections anyway so if it starts now or a little bit in the future it's I don't know we'll see what happens yeah yeah there's actually an argument to be made that it's better to release it now that way people and governments and companies get used to it and like see it in action rather than like trying to do a massive big release in the future but you you don't have any Market data right right so there is a lot of skepticism about whether language models can truly be creative or if they're just remixing training data in clever ways what's your perspective are models like GPT capable of real creativity or not uh I I would say right now it's more of a remix um I would hope eventually it gets to a point where it's it feels more like to True creativity um you just from my testing like our our particular product for example like coming up with video ideas uh it seems to do a good job and um but it also feels more of a remix than than true creativity um it it does feel like eventually though it'll get to a point where it'll feel more more human-like more more real creativity I guess when you first use chat GPT when when everybody first used it it was just mindblowing and uh it just felt like the most amazing thing and and super creative but the more you use it the more you see patterns and um not the same content but just kind of patterns on how it thinks and how it gives results and just makes it feel a little less creative so I think more you use it the less um you know true creativity it feels and the more it feels like remixing but I think as it improves over time we'll get to that point yeah I think you're you're spot on there because the first time like especially people who are new to AI when they try it it it's like wow right it seem it seems creative but you have to think about how much data there is on the internet so it might actually be like combining stuff that's written in some obscure Reddit post from 10 years ago go that a person wrote but obviously you've never read that so it might seem creative in that sense but you don't know if it's from the training data or if it's something Noel right so yeah I I definitely agree and like the the basic version of C gbt like for my experience is like really bad at creative video ideas so I think that's why there's a need for a product like creative fuel to provide some good prompts some good templates and like guide the llm in a direction to be more useful and more creative even if it's like pseudo creative right right yeah and you know one one nice thing is like what we're trying to do is also pull in some more real-time data and look at yeah which particular been successful on your Channel or you know a channel in your Niche and and pull those in just like you said to help guide it a little bit better yeah I think that that would be huge and do you think the llm architecture do you think like in terms of the creative creativity if we're going to achieve something truly creative something that no human or no like you know no llm whatever basically something that isn't anywhere else on the internet do you think we need a new architecture for that or do you think llms are good enough that one probably goes beyond my knowledge technologies that are actively being worked on outside of llms that are seeing promise or potential right now I mean I'm definitely not an expert when it comes to AI architecture so I'll probably like default the answer to what Yan Lon thinks because I've recently watched his Alex Freedman interview and he's the guy who he's basically the head of AI at meta so he's one of the three um Godfathers of deep learning so like he's been in the field for 40 years or some some crazy amount right so he's a complete Pioneer there and he thinks that like Auto regressive llms so language models that like you know predict based on the next word so it cannot lead somewhere that's like completely unrelated right like if if there's no representation of that in the training data it cannot lead you from like let's say super simple example from a car to uh blanket like completely unrelated words right so Auto regressive LMS according to his view can never be truly creative purely because they are you know regressing they're predicting the next word based on the previous word so in that sense they cannot come up with a novel idea so I don't know like personally as I said I'm definitely not an expert but if I were to say I think there's going to be like a mix of you know Transformers llms and some new architecture but who knows how that looks like this this is the hard part of predicting right because that could be like a bottleneck that takes 10 years or it could be something that's solved in six months right yeah yeah everything changes so quickly and and you just kind of never know what's next these days it's it is an exciting exciting time to to see what's happening yeah absolutely so what do you like going from exciting to the other side what do you believe is the most significant threat posed by Ai and what can we do to address it I mean one one particular thing just just like we talked about a little earlier you know potentially deep fakes things like that uh around election so um definitely concerned with you know I I'm sure everyone has gotten tricked once or twice so far on AI produce videos especially images uh so you know figuring out how to how to manage that I think is going to be very important um I think there's also you know if there's particular you know Bad actors that want to build a or something you know you can go on and not chat gbt but an un unregulated unregulated llm and um you know potentially figure out very quickly how to do bad things so you know the internet gave you access to kind of all this information um and now llms are kind of walking you through the steps and giving you exactly what you need based on what you ask it for so I think you know just as it can help speed up good it can also help you know speed up the bad side of the world so um those are two particular things I would say I'm concerned about so like the argument people would say against that would be like if somebody wanted to do something criminal right can still search it up through Google DDO stuff like that so obviously like the LM would save them time but if someone was like really committed to doing something illegal they could still do it so do you think like the downside for the like good people because most people are not like criminals right so basically do you think like restricting justifies like limitations for everybody else uh yeah not necessarily um I I definitely lean towards fewer restrictions and um you know there's always going to be bad people in the world and like you said they'll figure things out one way or another um but it doesn't necessarily need mean we have to restrict everybody um I definitely think the good of AI is going to outweigh the negative so I definitely lean towards less restrictive and I'm I'm fine with chat gbt being more restrictive are some of the bigger ones that are more broadly used um but there's always going to be ways for people to get access to llms that aren't as restrictive to so um I think there can be a balance but I would lean towards being less restricted myself yeah I'm I'm definitely optimistic as well and I think like people are by Nature Good like if you were to look at the percentages right I think 99.9% of tgbt PRS are harmless right it's not people trying to do something illegal so I'm definitely with you there but like I feel like there is like this growing sense of pessimism in the i space where a lot of people are like seriously pessimistic just negative about the future like why do you think that is you know probably probably the fear of the unknown um things are accelerating so fast and uh you know I think it's mostly just just the unknown just people not knowing what where it's all leading um can make you feel uneasy can make you nervous um yeah I mean they don't know what's going to happen nobody essentially knows what's going to what things are going to look like in five years and so um some people that's exciting um it's they're optimistic you know kind of in nature but some people are pessimistic in nature and might just focus on the downsides or or think about you know the problems it's going to solve instead of thinking about what it'll be what problems it will be able to solve um so I think it just might come down to personality and and nature of of the people and kind of the unknowns yeah I think it's obviously I think it's good to look at both the positives and negatives so I mean I don't have personally a problem with like people who feel are more pessimistic about the future but what I do have problem with is that a lot of those people kind of default to like oh there's nothing we can do or like we just wait until AGI comes and wipe us all out right and like sure it's a small minority like less than 5% I would say but like they're super vocal so sometimes it feels like it's 70% of the people and it makes sense because if if they seriously believe that AI is going to kill us all like you want to talk about it you want others to know that right true yeah makes sense so back to content creation what do you think will be like the next big AI breakthrough that will totally revolutionize how creators make content is it AI videos like Sora or maybe is it like a perfect realtime translation to every single language what do you think uh I would go more towards Sora um I think being able to generate videos you know from text prompts getting b-roll um things like that are going to be huge and um I think some of the some of the newer things coming out where you can essentially create a character and then keep that character across different yep um you know images or video I think that's going to be you know huge once once that really gets dialed in um and that's something I've kind of worked on you know game programming things like that it's I I used AI to to build some game you know graphic assets but you can't really keep the same character across multiple or it's very difficult to kind of keep the same character same theme everything across um different aspects of the game so I think in content creation once you can build like a consistency um from the output that's going to be big um and yeah I think Sora um kind like you were saying is is just going to revolutionize things yeah I mean M Journey the latest mney update actually did massive progress in that consistent character issue and obviously it's still not perfect like if you look closely enough you can see like maybe the bones are slightly different or whatever but like on a if you look at the first glance it's definitely better than in the past and yeah I mean it's a matter of time right probably in the next 3 to six months that will be solved perfectly and then for thumbnails for stories like that'll be so huge right especially when you can take the image and then plug it into a image to video tool and create like scenes right from Runway ml for example or pabs like that would be huge for storytelling and like for example um YouTube kids I think will be full of that content right because obviously kids don't really care but like how difficult is it to manually animate versus create something with mid journey and then you know animate it I think that would be and also in video game assets like most like a lot of um game developers just want to build the game and a lot of them aren't like 3D modelers or you know Sprite designers or whatever so I think if you can use the AI tools to speed that up and you know create Textures in a matter of few minutes instead of few days like that would be huge yeah absolutely I'm I'm looking forward to that day personally as I'm building things out and um having to come up with Sprites and and animations too yeah I mean every single NPC in every single game will have like their own llm running them so like World of Warcraft you can talk to the quest master and it will be GPT 4 powered and you can actually have a real conversation with it right rather than like pre-selected dialogue right yeah so you're building an AI tool which right now is a totally ruthless Market super competitive why do you think most AI tools fail is it a bad idea is it over complicated UI what do you think uh I I think it's a mix of a few different things um one thing I've noticed across different tools is the unpredictability of output from AI um and it's something we've struggled with ourselves and um you know you you kind of never know what you're going to get some days you you love the responses you get from Ai and um other days you you're like what you know what is this it's not what I asked for so I think consistency is a big thing where um you know before AI traditional programming there's kind of inputs and outputs and and it's all repeatable you know what you're going to get um with AI you don't know what's coming back you you feed in a prompt and and you ask for things and you may or may not get what you're looking for so I think I think that's a big issue right now and that's going to improve over time um but just the inconsistency in results uh and then you know the just software in general just making sure you're actually solving someone's problem problems and making it easier for them um you know it's really easy to add an AI logo to your product and um you know embed some sort of AI but is it actually helping people is it something people want is another question so um yeah I think you know companies are adding AI just so they can say they have ai and then um there's also just un predictability that I've found as far as like getting the output you want I mean when you mentioned that I always they started thinking of solutions but the issue is that right now you're building on top of cgbd which has the temperature of 0.7 so to get like the most consistent outputs you would do temperature zero which is like the least creative but the most consistent so if you were to feed it like um you know good titles that you want to emulate that would be ideal but then again if you were to go zero you would sacrifice some of that creativity or pseudo creativity so yeah there's down yeah so as an entrepreneur in the AI field what are some unpopular opinions you hold about AI in general all right looking at looking at Sora for example I might be a little skeptical that it's ever going to get to the point where you type in a prompt and maybe I was this way with mid Journey too just for plain images it like you know it's never going to be perfect um but I feel like mid Journey image wise is almost perfect now um it's really gotten to the point where it's like wow um I'm still skeptical that we'll get to that point with video so um you know it I know we're still early but um I'll say I'll say we're not going to get to that point in video where you're consistently getting the results you want um based on text prompts and why do you think that is like because the C the obvious argument would be like a video is just a series of images right true but um you know there there a series of connected images and there's you know the flow between the images you know every frame has to you know match the previous and the full output has to flow and look natural and um you know the ones they put out have been amazing um but I'm still skeptical that that'll get to the point of you know where mid journey is for images that um it's very crisp and you're not seeing six fingers on people's hands type of things yeah I think either way it will be like more than good enough for people for YouTubers to use it because what's the alternative like paying some expensive you know stock footage subscription like even image subscriptions right if you look at get the images the prices are insane like up to like $600 for a single picture right like like some rare historical pictures so if you can use AI tools to create that image or that stuck footage video like that would be just amazing right and even like even um let's say like invat elements is pretty affordable but still like you have to go there and you have to search for the Right video it's much better if you just type out the prompt exactly what you're envisioning and you get that you know right away and you can use it and it's original never before used because all the other results would be like stuff that's in thousands of other YouTube videos right so people kind of get tired of that they see the same visual dozens of times so I think yeah definitely Sora and like other AI video tools will be huge even if they're not perfect I think they all they have to be is like good enough for people to use them over stock like that exact for sure so what does your current team look like at creative fuel how many people do you have and which positions are you practicing right now um so creative fuel we definitely there's only three of us working on it um kind of three of the core founders of Tu budy actually um and with tu budy our team got up to 13 13 people total when we were required um I believe there's 40 plus now um 30 40 uh but this this time around I definitely and one of the reasons why I sold Tu buddy is because I spent a lot of time managing the company people and I really just wanted to get back to programming which is what I enjoy um building out product so this time around we're intentionally trying not to hire any employees and just kind of see what we can do as a small team and um keep it light and easy so uh for Creative fuel in particular trying to keep it small this time um just three of us as of now I mean it's almost more impressive if you build something with a lean team than to blow it up and then you know that was like super painful to downsize later Airbnb made that mistake obviously and like it was huge cost to them just with 13 people it's like still impressive because like I think I've read some statistic like over 20 million different YouTubers have used it so like that's still huge