Our vibe coded projects that actually work | The Vergecast

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Hello and welcome to the Vergecast, flagship podcast of the Vercel REST API. >> [music] >> I'm your friend David Pierce and today on the show we have a challenge. The way this is going to work, we're going to we're going to do a bunch of these in a row, but the way this is going to work is we've gathered a bunch of people, we're going to give them all a challenge and then we are going to go off for several weeks and report back on what we found. Today we are starting with two of my colleagues, Jake Kastrenakes and Hayden Field, and we are going to do a vibe coding challenge. The first thing we're going to do is kind of lay the land, talk about where we all are in our vibe coding experiences, and then we're going to all go see who can do the best in vibe coding. It's a lot of fun. I'm very excited about this project in part because it's going to get me to like actually get some work done for a change for the podcast. It's going to be awesome. But first, here's everything else happening on the Verge today. This is 90 seconds on the Verge for Monday, June 29th, 2026. Mythos is back, kind of. The Anthropic model that was once deemed too dangerous [music] to release publicly and actually threw even more chaos into the already chaotic relationship between Anthropic and the US government is now being released to a Trump administration-approved list of organizations. Who those organizations are, who they will be, whether you'll ever get to use Fable 5 again, hard to say. Nobody seems to quite understand the AI regulatory environment right now. And given that the Supreme Court also ruled today that President Trump has the authority to fire two FCC commissioners, which changes the way that agencies work, whatever happens here, it will start with the White House. Meanwhile, Comcast is splitting [music] into two companies in the latest of a seemingly endless supply of media mergers and un-mergers. Now there will be Comcast, the internet, cable, and mobile carrier, and there will be NBC Universal, which is the studios, theme parks, and streaming networks including Peacock. None of this, by the way, applies to Vercel, which Comcast spun off in 2024. The media business just continues to be chaos. And a fun side note of this, by the way, is that I have a new disclosure to do here. I guess it's going to be something like Comcast is an investor in PMX, the parent company of The Verge. I'm going to have to get used to that one. And finally, quick PSA for you. WhatsApp is rolling out username support later this year so that you can find people and be found without having to share phone numbers. The feature's not live yet, but you might be able to go to settings, account, username and reserve yours. There are like 3 billion people on WhatsApp, so you should probably move fast. You can read more about all of this at the verge.com. That is 90 seconds on The Verge for Monday, June 29th. All right. Now, it is time for some vibe coding shenanigans. Joining me now The Verge's senior AI reporter Hayden Field. Hi, Hayden. >> Hey. >> And The Verge's executive editor Jake Kastrenakes. >> It's actually it's chief shenanigans reporter, I think. >> Chief shenanigans reporter. What I want to do here is something that you guys actually did a little bit of while I was on parental leave last year, which is just all simultaneously attempt to go on a technology adventure together. Um you you guys all did vibe coding projects last year, and I listened to that episode of The Vergecast with like sheer rage because none of you tried hard enough and you all gave up too fast. And we're going to do some new stuff. So, I I have assembled the three of us, and the way that this is going to work is at the end of this episode, I'm going to give all three of us a task, and it is it is largely a vibe coding based task, and we are going to regroup in a month and just share what we have done on that task. Um you will be relentlessly shamed for not doing a good job or trying hard enough. Um you will but the world is your oyster. So, we're going to get to the task at the end, but what we were going to do is a task ahead of this. The first assignment I gave both of you was basically like go vibe code something that you have made that is useful and interesting in your daily life. And you both were kind of like, "We've done this already." So, we're going to start our experience with some show and tell. And Jake, I want you to go first and tell us a little bit about your vibe setup and some of the stuff that you've built. >> Yeah. I mean, I I feel like what I should actually start with is the failures, okay, which is it it's it turns out so when we did this last year vibe coding as somebody who has no coding knowledge it it wasn't there. Like it it didn't work. Like we tried stuff and it was constantly flopping. >> Yeah. >> And then when I checked back in again, uh you know in this winter oh, it had changed a lot. I you know and and so the thing you will find if you start experimenting with vibe coding is like you're going to make a lot of stuff that in the moment you're like this I'm cooking. Like this this is amazing. And then you use it and you're like I have no use for this. Like this is total garbage. Um so I I made a bunch of tools that I thought would be useful for work. Different kinds of news digests, different kinds of things that would you know, pull together Twitter feeds, things that would I I just one time I told Claude I was like hey find every single you know, open US government database that is relevant to the verge and you know, pull all of the files that are relevant to companies we cover and then just like do some analysis on them. And it was just like cool. Let me just go get the API for like the Treasury. And and it just like did it and it built it. And then I had all this data and I was like there's nothing. Like I don't know what to do with this. And so it gotten there. Like it the the technology has advanced a lot, but I I think the thing that I found is that finding an idea that is useful to you specifically is harder than building it now, which is is nice. This is I mean this is like increasingly supported by the data by the way, right? That like you look out into the vibe coding world and everybody is building tons of stuff that amounts to nothing and this is becoming like a enterprise crisis because everybody is "We're using all these tokens for nothing. What is the point of any of this money that we're spending?" So, you've you've encountered the same problem that every Fortune 500 company is having in spades right now. >> Except I only paid like $20 a month, so it was not It was not so bad. Um eventually I did strike something though, right? I I do So, I I got a small focused problem I have at work, which is that I have a lot of meetings with people uh on our team every single week, right? And >> Mhm. >> by the by the time the next week rolls around, I have forgotten everything we talked about. And that's because like I I've tried a million different systems for taking notes for these these meetings, and every single time it's just I like I don't read my old notes back. They're kind of a mess. They're in different places. I like I had just like a long-running text edit doc. Like it's not good. Um and so I kind of thought like, "Oh, wait. What if I have a notes app that is specifically for meetings with our team, and I can list everybody's names, and I will have it automatically roll forward every single new entry um with the action items from our last meeting, and I can have it automatically summarize, you know, the past few weeks of notes." And so, now when I go to have one of these meetings each week, I'm like super prepared because it's giving me like a brief on what we've been talking about. I have the action items that I'm supposed to be coming in with. And this has been great for me. And so, like this This was the first thing I built that was really, really successful. >> Okay, wait. Can you just pause for 1 second? >> Yeah. >> Hayden, I want to know how that description makes you feel. I once described a vibe coding project to Neelay, and he he told me that it sounded like I was describing a dream to him, and that has hurt my feelings ever since he said that. Uh I want to know like did did Jake's description of what he vibe coded do anything for you? >> Yeah, I mean, I don't know. With vibe coding, I feel like the simpler the better. Like it's usually solving a problem that like is really easy, but you just can't get it together. That's how mine was at least what I like built. And so, this seems similar. It's like, yeah, he could you know, take the notes and look back at them, but he's not. So, he's like figuring out a small tiny fix that's going to make him look. So, I feel like, yeah, I mean, it seems like simple enough to work, in my opinion. Like, you gave us the prompt of the toothbrush test, like something you're going to use twice a day. And that's what I kept thinking so it's like this seems to pass that, you know. I feel like people try to like go too crazy with it and then they just like we were talking about, it just flops and like they never use it again. So, I like something that's simple. >> is so real in vibe coding cuz you're like, I can do anything. Maybe I'll just do everything and it just all falls completely on its face. I I know exactly what Nilay's saying, though, because it it it you know, as a piece of software, like it's I I think it's pretty polished, right? I could share it around. Other people could use it. But, it this doing this has maybe re- like appreciate people who actually make software so much more because >> Same. >> this this thing is precisely designed to solve my problems and >> Yeah. >> it doesn't make sense for anybody else. It is specifically tuned to my workflow. And I don't suddenly I'm like, how do you if I would if I'm passionate and I'm going to and I'm going to make a notes app, like how do I know it's a thing other people want? Like, how do I know that it's an interesting idea? Cuz we see we Right, we cover this stuff all the time. David, like you've written about 9 million to-do apps. And each of them has like a a an interesting marketable idea and like I don't I don't know what that is for my app, but it doesn't matter cuz it's only for me. But, that's why it's so it's like I can't pitch this to somebody. >> Uh Jake, one more question for you before we get to Hayden's project. What is broken about the app that you made yourself? >> I mean, this app is like really simple. It's it's basically just a Safari web view with some notes. I have I I hate to tell you but like I haven't found it yet. Though I have like out of paranoia, like once a week I ask Claude to review it and be like, "Hey, make sure the data isn't going to fall apart. Make sure it's not going to delete all my notes. Like make sure I'm not going to lose everything." >> Can I Can I just make a quick suggestion? Just go back to Claude and say, "Hey, can we back all of this up as text files?" Just Just do that for me and it'll make me feel better. >> All right, I'll look into it. >> You're You're going to end up with like a web cache problem that is just everything's going to fall apart. If If it starts with localhost:3000, you've got you you've made mistakes. >> Uh that's my other vibe coding app. >> [laughter] >> Do you want to tell us about that real fast? >> Well, I made an entire email client. >> [laughter] >> Oh my god. I can't wait to hear about this. This is my dream. >> Is this is Dude, I Okay, so like I've had the same email address for like over 10 years. >> Yeah. >> And it's been public the entire time. And so I get so much garbage. And so I I was like, "Okay, how can I figure this out? How can I create an experience where I don't have to deal with a million emails at once?" And the answer is just labels. Like it's just Gmail labels. But Gmail labels are like on the They're like hidden in the corner. There's like not like a fast way to access them. And I was like, "Oh, you know what would be perfect? You know how Gmail has like the big tabs up top like promotions and whatever." >> Yep. >> I was like, "Oh, what if I just put my labels up there?" That would like solve my exact problem. Gmail doesn't let you do that. You can't choose what goes up there. So I was like, "Okay, I'll just build an entire app that puts my labels up there." And it's great and it makes it super easy for me to like triage my emails because it like shows me all the stuff that's from like you guys, my co-workers. It has stuff from like known trusted contacts who I want to hear from. Uh it has a tab for like literally like 5,000 plus unread newsletters. It's great. I love it. >> You basically built yourself like sucky superhuman, which people pay $30 a month for. Like, [laughter] that's I think it's kind of great. Some Some PM at Gmail is listening to this is going to and is going to get a promotion by going and launching what you just described as a new version of Gmail. >> I would really appreciate it. But yeah, but it's also like I had to like enable a bunch of weird Gmail API things. Every single time I did something, I was just I I would be like, Claude, please do not accidentally send emails to my entire contact list. Like Like it's a little scary. Like I would rather kind of not do that. Like a local notes app, like the worst thing that happens is that I go into a meeting with you, David, and I forget what we talked about last week. Like it's it's fine. This one, the worst thing that happens is that I accidentally like spam every single person who ever talked to >> your own email. Yeah. >> But you have a local host thing. It's like, for some reason that I haven't quite felt like dealing with, I have to log in once a week and then the login involves me going back into my browser and there's this local host thing and I just >> Yeah. >> It's fine. But >> the kind of stuff that I really get a kick out of because >> [clears throat] >> my own experience, which which we'll get to in a minute, is uh I have built a bunch of software that has a bunch of bugs that I would find completely reprehensible in anybody else's software, but in mine I'm like, "Yeah, that's fine. I can deal with [laughter] this. I don't know how to fix it anyway." Uh Hayden, let's get to you. Have you Have you been vibe coding? What have you built for yourself? >> Yes, okay. So, I have been vibe coding. Um what I made was a habit tracker, which I know everyone makes, but for me, I have ADHD and so I really desperately need one. Like I've learned about myself that I can't like start a new habit without accountability, basically. You know, it takes like 6 weeks, 3 to 6 weeks of me having accountability with someone else or with like a inanimate object, whatever. I have a tracker. I need to have some sort of accountability for like 3 to 6 weeks and then I'm set. I'm in it. I don't need the accountability anymore. But it is very tough for me to start a new habit. So every time I join a new gym, like I make five gym friends. I'm like, I got to really lock in here, you know, cuz I'm not going to do something just for myself. I have to just not disappoint someone else or not get a star on my habit tracker or whatever. That is going to make me do the thing, not just the long-term knowledge that I'll be healthy or something. >> Totally. >> So, at least in the beginning. So basically, I used to download all these different habit tracker apps like you guys were talking about with to-do list apps and you know, note-taking apps. And so I've tried like every habit tracker out. There's always something that bothers me about it or it's really expensive. I even downloaded this one that I loved for a while called Habit, but the problems with it were that you couldn't create a habit that wasn't every day. Like, for example, I need to take my iron supplement every other day and it's something that I'm always going to forget cuz you have to do it on an empty stomach at night and you have to take it with your vitamin C. So it's just like for an ADD person, that's just too many details to recall on the fly. And so, yeah, or I don't want to work out every single day, but I also don't want to be like shamed for not working out every day. And if I see it on the thing and it's like work out and then I don't check it off, I will feel shame even if it's not a big deal. I just, you know, I have to feel like I'm succeeding in order to um have motivation, basically. That's how I work. And so, what I made was a habit tracker app that has like a section for daily habits. It's It's extremely simple. It's like uh rectangles that each have a color and then when you swipe across the habit to mark you completed it, it becomes a deeper color and stars rain down. So you you got you get a reward. You get a gold star. >> Is this like a native mobile app you made yourself? >> Yeah, I made a a web app and then I made a native mobile app. Um So I will say it has >> know, Jake Hayden's already winning. Just by making a native mobile app, Hayden Hayden wins this round of the Vibe Coding Olympics. >> I will say though that it was really hard to build the native mobile app. Like it took a lot of time and it kept breaking and I tried I did it I did both of these things, both the web app and the the mobile app. I tried both Codex and Cloud Code. And I had I compared and contrasted and I had an interesting experience with both. But anyway, yeah, so it also has a section for three to four times a week, which is like working out and creative project of some sort cuz I'm starting to try to like learn how to embroider and stuff like that. And then only every other day does it pop up to say like, "Oh, take your iron." And that's another habit that appears. So basically I made it perfectly for myself and I think this is actually something that other people would want to use. But I will say you guys, it said that I had like 15 high security vulnerabilities and 15 [laughter] medium security vulnerabilities. >> Yeah. >> So I'm not a developer, so I don't know what they are. But it seems like, you know, it could be dangerous for people who don't know what they're doing to like be using this to like deploy apps on the open internet. So >> favorite thing is you go through these things and it you you say like, "Oh, Xcode is telling me I have all these problems." And Cloud Code is just like, "Yeah, don't worry about it." >> Yeah, exactly. >> nothing. Like, "But [laughter] are But we sure it's nothing?" >> I literally asked them, Codex, like, "Is this a problem?" And it was like, "Oh, don't worry about those." That's what it said. I was like, "Okay." So yeah, I mean, it works on my phone now as long as I'm connected to the same Wi-Fi. So, you know, I mean, I would like it to work all It seems to It hasn't broken yet, but I just, you know, it works so far. It's going well. And, you know, it has made me more likely to do my my new habits, which is great. So, >> That's really that's really impressive. I do think that's a fun one because that is the sort of thing that I I can absolutely see how you're like, "Oh, other people would would be like this, too." Whereas like there's some things like Jake, the first thing you described in particular is like this is very specifically for me and my thing. But then it's very easy to be like, "Well, lots of people have running one-on-ones at their at their work. Maybe other people will want this, too." And then it's like I think an an easy trap I've seen a lot of people fall into is you're like, "Okay, well, what would other people want?" And then you've accidentally built an app you don't want anymore. Uh whereas I feel like Hayden, the the everything you just said to me was like, "Oh, this is very cool. That's something I would use, too." And then you're like, "Oh, and stars come down." And I'm like, "I would turn off the stars. I don't I don't want the stars. Get the stars out of my face." >> You can adjust those. >> [laughter] >> So, you you have a you have an adjustment for the stars even though you like the stars. >> Well, I did originally and then I was like, "No, I'm just going to keep them." So, I >> [laughter] >> I left them. Um at first it was like it was trying to be too elegant. It was like a quick sparkle and I was like, "No, this needs to be like a reward function. You need to make them more intense." And then it did. So, >> What if it just rained stars? >> [laughter] >> That's really good. Um mine I've talked about a bunch already on on this show and on the website. Um but basically I built myself I've I've built two things now that I use every day. Uh the first one is just a basically a way to see my calendar and my to-do list in one place, which is shockingly hard to do in a way that is not like hideously ugly. Um yes offense to every app that does this already. I know there are lots of you and I've tried them all and they're all bad in your own special way. Um but I can I just now have like a running list of the events that I have for today and the tasks that I have for today. And all the events are synced to Google Calendar and all the tasks are synced to Todoist, which is what I use for my to-do list. But I can just see them and add to them all from one place. And that has been like life-changingly great. It exists on my phone. It's just a thing I open to see what's going on today. Um the other one, which I just built yesterday and is working very well for me, is uh I constantly have 700,000 tabs open, and I discovered the problem is that I don't I I need to put my tabs somewhere. Some of them are like, "Oh, this is going to be a story." Some of them are like, "This This is going to be a thing that I'm going to put in the installer newsletter." Some of them are like, "This I just need to come back to later." And I have I built a a web clipper that is just a filing system. So, I click the thing and then I click where it goes, and it just sends the link to the right place, and I don't have to think about it anymore, and I am using the least RAM on my computer that I have used ever in history. Uh it's this tiny little piece of software. It like barely works. For anybody starting with live coding, by the way, I really recommend starting with browser extensions, because they're very simple to make. They're really easy to load. Um you can obviously do lots of like security disaster things, but like the the there are fewer horrible ways for it to go wrong when you're just trying to like do a simple thing with a web page on your computer. Highly recommend messing around with Chrome extensions to solve some of your browser problems. The email client you described, Jake, all of a sudden like has my has my brain spinning. I'm like, "This is This is a thing that I want." I have gone back into a bunch of the supposedly useful AI email clients recently. My inbox is the most out of control it's ever been. I don't know how you two are as email people, but like I was inbox zero person for a long time. I've like 700 unread emails right now, and it's stressing me out. >> You know how I am. >> Yeah, you're a maniac. Yeah, you're a you're a you're a psychopath when it comes to email. We don't We don't talk about that. Um but I think like I feel like we've all done a pretty good job here of like solving a very specific problem for ourselves, which is good. Um Oh, wait, can I tell you the thing that's broken about mine, which I think is very funny? Uh I set up a bunch of keyboard shortcuts so that I can like navigate around my little daily planner app. Uh there are three tabs and I can type one, two, and three to switch between them. I can type command T to have a new tab or a new task. This app, for some reason, captures all of the keyboard shortcuts on my device, so I can't open a new browser tab inside of while I'm you looking at this planner app because command T it takes to me in a new tab when I just want it to be T. I cannot make Cloud Code fix this. This is where I'm like any person who is a remotely functional developer would know how to fix this. I do not. So, I I am like every keyboard shortcut on my computer ceases to exist whenever I have this app open and it drives me insane. But, I don't know how to fix it. >> That seems unusable. >> It's not. But, I just have to go over and click the new tab button and then everything comes back and it's fine. As long as I switch tabs with the mouse, we survive. But, anything once I when I'm in the app, it refuses to acknowledge that anything else exists, which strikes me as a very normal vibe coding problem. >> Yeah. And this is what's delightful and terrible about these things. It's just like, "Oh, but everything else is so perfect for me, like I will deal with this incredibly major inconvenience." >> Yeah. >> Have you guys used anybody else's vibe coding stuff yet? I know obviously, it it's hard to know to some extent, right? But, I mean like have you seen anything else somebody just like made on GitHub and and been like, "Oh, I'll take that for myself." >> No, I haven't. >> Would you? Does that feel risky? >> I don't know. I mean, after building my own and seeing all my security vulnerabilities, [laughter] I'm like, yeah, I don't know if I would. I mean, I feel I feel like I would just rather make it myself. Um especially because I don't know. Like when I was >> [laughter] >> when I was comparing and also like comparing with Cloud Code versus Codex, there were like 30 security vulnerabilities on both and I feel like anyone else vibe coding would be like me and just be like, "Oh, it's no big deal." So, yeah, I don't know. But, I think I would get ideas from it. >> The thing that I'm really curious about is if when I was doing this email client, I was like, oh, why don't I just like start from an open source project and then that will be like a really sturdy center and then I can just cut like I can cut it down and build it back up to what I need to be. Um And like my dream is that like as this stuff becomes more and more common, people just build right a core to a notes app, a core to an email app, core to a to-do app. And and that stuff I don't if it does exist, like I'm not good at finding it and figuring out how to build off of it. Um And also some of these things are just so simple. But yeah, I I think like if it's something like that where I'm like, this is a known trusted entity, a community project, like yeah, absolutely like open to using it, but some some of that stuff like I'm more likely to like be inspired and then do my own thing than be like I mean, this is the thing, like they're they're dreams. They're they're very specific to you and so it's like I don't know if I really would use somebody else's thing. >> Yeah, I went when I was building this little web clipper thing for myself, uh I fed there there's this thing called Marquee uh that is just like a a neat little tiny text utility for Mac that somebody I think Vibe Coded and put on GitHub. Uh and I I put that into Cloud Code as like design inspo that I was like, this is what I want this to look like basically. Very simple and straightforward. Look like that. And Cloud Code was like, oh, I like Marquee a lot. Great job. And I was like, okay, sure. Sure, Cloud Code. But yeah, I I have not yet figured out my own tolerance for this stuff cuz I think even if you assume that most people are doing this stuff with good intentions and not malicious intentions, which I think is true. Uh certainly people will have malicious intentions. But like you said, Hayden, even the people with the good intentions uh might screw this up, which is one of the reasons I have been reluctant to share any of the stuff that I've been doing with people. I even got some feedback from people who were like, I like the way that looks. Like you share the thing with me and I'm like, A, I don't really know how to do that. And B, no. Cuz cuz I don't know what's going to happen to either of us if I do that. And it feels like Jake, to your point about last year, this question of like how do I even stand up any of this stuff? We've sort of solved that in a way, right? Like the the ability to get a thing up and running for yourself is much much much easier now. Uh like Hayden, you and I have figured out Xcode. If we can figure out Xcode, people can do it. Uh >> That's for sure. >> The next phase we have not figured out is like how to make these things safer and share and more shareable and more sort of durable out in the world. That doesn't feel like anybody has figured it out yet. And that feels like >> interesting, like you're talking about how you would customize Hayden's thing, and it as soon as you go to share something, it's like, "Oh, I have to clean up this like wacky settings thing that everything is just like hard-coded to what I need it to be, right?" Like if it was an actual app, I'd have to code the ability to make custom tabs, the ability to like rearrange, and it's like It's funny cuz it's like literally a machine does it for you. It's as lazy as it gets. But like I don't want to baby sit that. Like I there's like you still have to do some like you have to do a lot of troubleshooting, uh particularly for bigger projects. Like the the notes app that I made took like 30 seconds. The email app took like uh a weekend, um which is is again, all things considered, not very long, but like it was it was annoying. And it's like I I don't want to go deal with that to and like potentially ruin my app in the process. >> Yeah. I agree with that. >> um the phone app or turning it into a phone app was what took me the longest. And then I was like testing both the web I made the web app and the phone app each with Codex and Cloud Code. And it was interesting because OpenAI like Codex had better taste, but it was extremely confusing. Like I kept having to ask, "What do I do now or what does that mean? Constantly. I never made it to the phone app at first either because it messed up on the app version setup and it like didn't set up for a compatible X spoke version. >> Interesting. >> Um so and it shows like a two new animation package for the stars, things like that. Whereas Claude code was better at building web previews and really easy to understand and just better at solving problems I couldn't conceptualize on my own. Like I honestly didn't know how to conceptualize the three to four times a week thing. I was like, "Yeah, I need this but I don't really know how it will show up and not make me feel bad." And it was like, "Oh, why don't we do it like this?" And it was right. So, I was impressed with Claude code more but I will say it was I don't know. It was not It didn't have a great taste without hand-holding. Like the one it made at first was functional but extremely ugly. Whereas Codex's was like beautiful. So, I had to do a lot of hand-holding to change the design but I mean the functionality was better at first. So, that was interesting. >> That is [snorts] really interesting. Claude code has a very uh let's say unsophisticated design sense by default. Um okay, we should get out of here but before we go, let me give you your task. And and as a reminder, you have four weeks give or take to pull this off and then we're going to we're going to regroup in four weeks and we're going to see how everybody did and there going to be prizes at the end for who did the best. >> And if you're saying stars will rain down >> Stars will [laughter] rain down upon you if you win. Here is the task. The task is to vibe code a website for something going on in your life. Uh Hayden you you're getting married is a thing that's going to happen. Would you like to vibe code yourself a wedding website? Knock yourself out. Uh my I already know what mine is going to be which is uh I will just spoil it for you now. I'm going to go vibe code myself a way to share photos of my kids with my family without having to either like create a private Instagram page or just try to like teach everybody how Google Photos works. I don't know how any of that's going to work or what I'm going to do, but that I have a I have a month to attempt to figure that out. But the the the prompt is very broad. You just have to build a personal website for something going on in your life. >> Are we being judged on uh security flaws? >> Let's stay with you you can safely assume this is just for you. And if it is designing for someone else, fine. Like I'm going to have to make a version of my thing that is accessible and useful to my parents. But this will not be for public consumption. Um so to to whatever extent that makes you feel better about leaving the security warnings untouched uh is up to you. But you will not be judged on the relative security of your website, at least not yet. >> Yeah. >> All right. I'm excited. >> if you have tips for us, if you have thoughts about what we should do, um we are all vastly in over our heads on all of this. We're all being very vulnerable on this podcast as we go through this stuff. So help us out. vergecast@theverge.com, call the hotline 866-VERGE11. Jake and Hayden, thank you for doing this with me. And as always, the best thing you can do to support everything that we're up to here at The Verge is to subscribe to The Verge. theverge.com/subscribe. It gets you access to all of our podcasts ad-free, including this one. It gets you all of our exclusive newsletters. It gets [music] you some big stories I've been writing about vibe coding, all of the other stuff. Jen Tuohy like vibe coding her smart house, that was awesome. We have lots of great coverage. You can get all of it theverge.com/subscribe. [music] Thank you in advance. Vergecast is a Verge production and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. The show is produced by Josh Kahaha, Eric Gomez, Brandon Kiefer, Travis Larchuk, and Erin La Castio. >> [music] >> We'll see you tomorrow. Rock and roll.