Frontend Coding Chat with Bob Ziroll: React 19, TypeScript, Conferences, Water Parks?!

Key Takeaways

hello everyone wow welcome to a Tuesday live stream I don't know if we've ever had a Tuesday live stream but here we are joined today by scrimba teacher extra ordinaire Bob zerol hi hello Bob to talk all about react typescript Tech conferences and anything else you want to ask which brings me nicely to this question do we chat here or on Discord so for context on Tuesday we usually have a bit of a chat over on our Discord channel in our town hall but we're not doing that this week we're doing this instead so to answer your question be right here seems like um the place to be so yeah questions for Bob or you just want to say hello um drop them in the chat and we'll get talking um Bob do you want to start by running us through the courses you've released let's say this year and the ones which are coming soon TM yeah um so I think I started out early in the year with a release of an introductory typescript course and um it's actually that c the course that currently exists is section one of three sections um so I'm going to have two more sections eventually that I'm adding to it um but uh while I was in the middle of recording it uh react 19 came out uh or is like on the cusp of coming out was announced and uh and so we decided to to switch courses courses change change lanes and uh put the rest of the typescript course on pause while I was working on a what's new in react 19 course and so that uh was kind of mhm um I think that one's only about an hour long yep 66 minutes and um so that one uh released that one has a bunch of cool information about all the new stuff in uh or the the most I guess impactful stuff in react 19 and then that prompted us to uh to look at redoing the uh the introductory react course which I think probably most people know me from um because it's our like our big free offering on scrimba um one of our big free offerings on scrimba um and so I'm redoing that course it's uh it's kind of funny because not actually that much of it is changing is different from the original one so um but that's because uh react 19 the new stuff introduced into react 19 is a little bit more on the advanced side um and so it might affect the advanced course but the introductory course is essentially the same as it was um but you know it looks funny for people coming to scrimba and seeing that the react we're teaching is two versions behind and uh so we don't want anybody to be dissuaded by that so updating the course from scratch re-reporting from scratch aome so I guess the question on a lot of people's minds will be how well what are the main changes or features coming live with react 19 that we should be excited about yeah um well if you want to go over to the react 19 I'll need a a little refresher because it's been a minute yeah so um I start this course by teaching a topic called use transition it's a new Hook from react 18 um excuse me but it wasn't uh I I never introduced it in my other courses in the introductory or the advanced react course um but understanding transitions in react is kind of is crucial to understanding a lot of the new things that are coming with uh react 19 and so we start by learning about Ed transition from react 18 gotcha um so that's uh I I think it's a good good catchup even says there it's a react 18 catchup um we touch briefly on the react compiler which uh anybody who has gone through some kind of advanced react course um or or anything that talked about performance in react um they've probably heard of um use memo use callback react. memo some of these performance um improvements that we as developers have had to manually do whenever there's performance issues with our react apps and react compiler kind of does away with a lot of that it essentially it it looks at your code beforehand and it does all that performance optimization for you um so super super nice um I don't think we're currently set up on scrimba to run the react compiler but as abdella is working on backend stuff um I suspect that eventually we'll be able to run a compiler step beforehand so that'll be that'll be really nice super oh so will everything learned here be in the new re-record of learn react or will people be advised to do both courses um this stuff is a little on the more advanced side than what I plan to cover with the um the introductory to react course so I don't think I'll cover any um I might talk about form action um but I uh I need to I need to figure that out as I'm going through it I'm not quite yet to the form section but forms and react are historically just kind of awful um and so form action and use action State and use form status um those new react 19 hooks um and features they make forms and react much more bearable so maybe maybe I will introduce it in this new react 19 Course once I get there off to figured out looking forward to that so is that to say well you say um forms in reactor will be bearable so that's promising at least yeah that's as promising as I can make it looking forward to that um anim3 says I feel like it's so undervalued how much Bob affected people's knowledge about reactjs I can only say I am so thankful for that yeah absolutely good yeah I'm glad you said I just wanted to take a moment to thank you for being such an amazing teacher your lessons have truly made a difference in my Learning Journey you've made complex topics easy to understand that's that's really good to hear I um I remember when I was first learning to code and I'm I'm not it doesn't come to me intuitively I've met a lot of uh younger younger people who they start learning and it just clicks for them and they understand it and there's a lot of topics that I struggled to understand that looking back I'm I'm not sure why I struggled so much but I think a lot of it had to do with kind of a a poor pedagogy a poor approach to teaching and so I used that in my uh I guess as my inspiration I try to remember what it's like um and just break things down as much as I can and hopefully I can continue to do that do you remember what kind of topics they were that you had the biggest problems with yeah I mean even uh when I first started learning um which I think a lot of people start on code academy I this was I guess would have been in 2012 or 2013 um I as soon as I got to JavaScript I think this is a lot of people's stories right they they do HTML they do CSS they get addicted to it they're hooked it's you know relatively simple although CSS positioning throws a lot of people off um and then you get to JavaScript and you you know uh you have to think through a for Loop and I think it's the first time when time doesn't work the way you think it works in programming and you're going backwards over the code again and again and um having to try and reason about that I remember that being pretty challenging on the code academy courses um and then also not knowing where to start um not having great uh Direction I think um can be really difficult so I remember taking a I I did some of that um HTML and CSS and JavaScript on code academy and then I jumped over to start learning Ruby but that course started me like by creating a GitHub repository and I was just I just felt really lost and um so I I empathize uh with everybody who's in the beginning phases because I know that sometimes you're you're just taking one step at a time and the light is barely shining right in front of you and uh you have you know you're you're walking by faith pretty much as you go forward yeah totally do you remember how you overcame these issues for me it was just time I um I I did attend a boot camp in 2013 and I remember our instructor saying that for him it took it wasn't until two or three years in that he finally felt like it uh like he could produce a feature on his own without a lot of handholding and so um on the one hand that made me feel like ah this is going to take forever I can't believe it's going to take me that long um on the other hand it gave me kind of a light at the end of the tunnel and uh gave me some hope that uh I wasn't you know even when I was one year in and I still felt like I was trying to figure stuff out um it didn't uh it gave me hope I guess that it was going to get better and it did right around the two two and a half year mark I think I finally was able to like produce a feature on my own without a lot of handholding and I think some of some people are going to probably be a lot faster than that faster than I am um but time I guess time and practice is really what makes all the difference I think that's really interesting because there's something about the one year mark where I remember failing at that year mark well I should have it down now for reasons I don't know just something about reaching a year instead of a number of months but um yeah that's not the case for many many people so things take time especially learning to code absolutely I'm not sure I've ever asked you this Bob but how did you get into coding to begin with yeah I um so gosh it was like back in Middle School uh and this is definitely going to date me um but it was like around the era of geoc cities and Angel Fire and I bet nobody has any idea what I'm talking about but um but like the first sites on the web where you could create your own website and uh upload HTML code with an SSH client um and uh uh like cyberduck SSH client just you know sending files from your computer to another computer and uh I had a friend who made his own uh Dragon Ball Z website uh like fan site and it was so dumb it was such a 90s website um and I was like that's so cool uh and so I started tinkering with that and I like put put up my own little Dragon Ball Z fan site because I had no originality back then and uh and yeah that was that was like probably the first time that I uh did any kind of programming um I also was uh into like programming little um math helper uh apps on my ti 83 Plus calculator you could actually like create your own little programs right there on the calculator and I remember that yeah and so I I it was like for for uh my trigonometry class or something U my my Calculus class I would put down formula helpers something that would just remind me what the formula was so I could look up the formula right on my calculator um and so that was that was really fun that was probably um I can't remember if that was first or if the anyway um Myspace I think a lot of people that are old enough remember Myspace you could program your own like backgrounds for your for your um Myspace page and so I didn't uh I didn't consider it something that I could do professionally um until after college after University I um ended up realizing that what I studied which was advertising wasn't really what I wanted to do and so um and so I eventually found out about boot camps they were going to be way too expensive um when I was in advertising I did an unpaid internship in New York City which is a very difficult city to live in unpaid and so I uh all the boot camps at the time the very beginning days of boot camps like 2012 2013 were in either San Francisco or New York City and so there was no way I was going to be able to not only be unpaid but pay lots of money to be there um and then I learned about one in my home state of Utah and uh and ended up attending that boot camp boot camp that was in 20 13 or 2014 2014 nice 2013 2013 the rest is history and just going over to the chat pop in and say hi let us know where you're tuning in from and few questions um has the react 19 course already been worked on I think what this means correct me if I'm wrong um Anna M3 um asking if this course is already live which it is um you can search scriber react 19 and there it'll be and I'll give you the link here and what's coming up next is our let's say traditional learn react course will be renewed as suppose with react 19 content but that isn't live yet but coming soon um hope that clarifies and um Bob your voice makes me want to learn more react really good keep learning keep learning react or go take the typescript course I'm also talking in that one indeed so this is onethird of what will one day be a three-part course this is news to me actually what will the other two parts be about yeah this uh this first section is all about just the syntax of typescript so I've I found when I was learning typescript um that there was a lot of conflation about typescript in the Dom typescript in react typescript just like what's core typescript um it's kind of like trying to learn uh it's kind of like trying to learn JavaScript by starting with react that's how it felt to me me learning typescript but only in the context of react or only in the context of JavaScript with the Dom um and so I the first section is just the core language uh portions of typescript the second section is going to be typescript with regular Dom operations the whole document. getet element by ID style you know stuff pre react and then the third section will be typescript in react and so um we'll we'll actually start uh building stuff with react and um and using typescript along the way and kind of figuring out when it's important to use typescript when you can uh like let typescript do its own inference um stuff like that brilliant looking forward to that and that's all going to be available on this page is it or is it going to be separate it out no I think it will uh be added to this course so it'll still be learn typescript I could be wrong um maybe per will have a different idea but I think at least uh at least the the section that's currently there and using typescript in the Dom those two will I'm almost certain be a part of like the learn typescript course um and then I guess there would be a possibility for like learn typescript and react to be its own separate course or maybe both who knows but anyway yeah yeah could more typescript is on the way but this is already live so go and check it out I must stop and say hello to debjit debjit is a longtime Watcher of the scrimba live stream good to see you back debjit oh that's nice yes um harsh would like to know I've learned a lot from scrimo I want to know will there be a backin related topics too in the future like node or PHP what do you reckon Bob what's our time stamp eight minutes in that's pretty good 18 oh you no no no I this message yeah we made it eight minutes before someone asked about backend backend is actively being worked on at scrimba um there's been working prototypes and uh I know things are actively moving along because it is the most requested thing uh course for scrimba is some backend related course usually either node node and express or nextjs and so um abdilla is I know working pretty hard on those and uh we want to make sure we get it right um and uh and so it's obviously it takes a long time I think a lot of people don't uh maybe know about the technical challenges that are involved in getting back into to work on scrimba because scrimba is not videos right if you were if we were just doing videos that were like dead pixels recorded on our screens we could of course do backend just like anybody on YouTube I could run backend code on my computer and just be recording my screen uh but because scriba is interactive um everything has to be able to run in your browser and so the technical challenge is getting a backend environment to work in your browser and to be Speedy enough that it feels like the regular scrimba experience um you know places like code sandbox um have backend support um but if you've ever run backend code uncode sandbox you know it just it's slow like it takes a while for it to to spin up and that's just a technical barrier that um the way that they've implemented uh requires them to to take a little extra time for backend code to run and so we're um working hard on on making that experience feel like a regular quick interactive scrimp experience yes it is on the way we're not just holding it back the fun I'm I'm really excited to to start prepping the backend courses and getting getting those out the door yeah going to be great on the topic of much requested features probably the well I'm sure the second most requested feature after backend courses was captions which we now have we do have captions which I will show you now um here we are this is s uh typescript course learn typescript defensive coding sounds exciting but anyway as you can see when I press play you won't hear anything because it's muted so we don't get audio chaos but we can read the captions I think I'm running it at 2x speed as I was gonna say that's so fast and you can see them on scrible courses with this CC button turn them off and on to your heart are so that's a good progress I think yeah I think I think that's an example of um op like the whole restructure of the scrimba you know behind the scenes um in action because they worked really hard on restructuring just how scrimba was was working and the systems behind scrimba for those that maybe aren't as familiar scrimba is written in a propri proprietary like an invented new language called imba and um and so cindra the Creator was working on you know releasing imba 2.0 which then allowed them to create a framework o which they call op um which is then um implemented into scrimba uh version to so it's it's been this whole journey of updating imba then then creating the framework and then rebuilding scrimba in that framework um so that new features could just be super fast when they uh when they were launching and I think closed captions is a good example of that it seemed at least to me the turnaround on getting closed captions out was really pretty quick um so so yeah kudos to the to the dev team totally shout out Dev team if you're interested in learning inba you can find the docs at .io and we even have to complete the circle of life a learn in course on scrimber so you can learn about the language scrimo is written in this is kind of boggling my brain on the platform which is written in that language yeah super cool um BR wants to know is this the new typescript course yes yep this one right here with Bob's face on it is the latest typescript course when did it come out Bob I don't remember now oh uh boy I don't either I want to say it was like February or March maybe few months ago not long anyway we we had the original course um by Ana Kubo and um and it was just time for a little refresh so this is uh replacing that one I think that one's probably still available somewhere but yes as is the nature of coding con conly getting new things speaking of new things you may have noticed this certificate of completion at the bottom of all the courses because uh certificates are now available for all scrimba courses which is a pretty big deal I think where's your little cheer uh cheer sound effect yeah I know I haven't got it it's been so long since I've done a live stream I need to get my my soundboard back I've got I've got eight buttons on my soundboard but I have no idea what sounds they make so yeah that's risky isn't it I think one of them is the uh the Jingle Bells from from one of the uh JavaScript misses that I recorded oh fested yeah beautiful beetal thank you for Shar that you experience those beginners uncertainty issues yeah definitely so just because it doesn't click at first doesn't mean it won't in time I think that's a really good thing to remember with anything really but definitely with coding what do you reckon about absolutely and I think um it takes it for a lot of people it takes longer than you might think uh which is where impostor syndrome starts to run rampant and um and you know some people will just quit because it's it is hard and it's meant to be hard and that's why developers are generally paid pretty well and um you know it's also difficult if you're starting in a self-learning journey instead of going through University for it um so there's a lot of hurdles to be overcome but um honestly if I like if I can do it I think a lot of people can do it I'm I'm not that special when it comes to my ability to learn or anything I'm just kind of a regular Joe so um yeah don't don't give up uh but also don't don't like suffer in silence Alone um it's really important one of the the three I would say one of the three pillars of of scrimba success is our community and having a community of people that you can turn to and ask questions and get answers and we're so worldwide that you know whatever time zone you're in whatever time of day it is somebody is awake and somebody is on the Discord server for example or um you know we have our Forum that you can ask questions in um so yeah take advantage of the community um it's one of the best ways I think to um get rid of insecurity and imposter syndrome and to to push forward and not just kind of stuck be stuck with your wheel spinning yeah definitely There's the link um to our Discord Community which is online right now and indeed always sc.com Discord come in and say hello we're a friendly bunch and I kind of want to go in order with questions but there's a burning question there that I really want to know the answer to I'll save it for later Stephen um yes this is a bit of a technical canundrum typescript doesn't infer do map or do filter methods arguments when working with react is it normal um is that a welln issue or I honestly I have no idea I haven't uh I haven't done too much yet in typescript with react so I I have a bit yet to learn um that surprises me because I think it it's pretty aware of different array methods and what uh what the Callback function is supposed to take um so yeah I'll have to I'll have to dive into that and make sure that I include it in the react portion of the typescript course if it is uh something abnormal for for typescript yes thank you for flagging it for us there and oh look at this AB thank you for teaching me react B I'll be forever grateful to you yes thank you into our live stream yeah I appreciate that just epic the TS C by Bob is a lot more interactive and in particular explains why TS may actually be useful well that's good to know why may actually be useful in brief that's you know that's true I when I Was preparing for the course um a lot of the materials that I consumed didn't get people excited about typescript they they just Dove right into the syntax of it and I I my Approach was that if I can get students excited about the um the benefits of typescript rather than than just saying like well you got to learn it because you got to learn it um then like your motivation typescript is easily demotivating and so I wanted to make sure that all the students understood like this is going to help you it's not um it's not just like I'm checking this box I'm using typescript because a lot of places require you to know typescript it's um you know it it it actually makes your life better um I think yeah it's h it seems like at first it seems like this is taking me longer and it's it's making my life worse when it comes to coding but uh my Approach in this course is to we we wrote a whole program just in JavaScript um and I like intentionally threw in some some common mistakes along the way that were not at all highlighted by JavaScript and then we simply changed the file extension to typescript and like all those problems were highlighted well a bunch of those problems were highlighted and so um so that was that was the approach that I took I was hoping it would be a little different than every other course that I saw so so it's good to hear that uh it's people are uh driving I guess with the uh my intention of having it be you know make you feel good about typescript instead of bad about typescript just yeah one of those things in life like I don't know the periodic table that you have to learn but you're never quite sure why this course will tell you why and tell you about it so go and check it out super cool um lumo any plans for a Redux toolkit or Zoo stand course these are required by tech companies even for junior developers I can't say I've actually heard of Zoo have you Bob yeah I've yeah I've heard of Zo stand um and I have heard so much feedback from people about redex tool kit that um it's making me reconsider uh having a separate course for redex toolkit um I had in the US like my worldview is relatively limited when it comes to um like what jobs are expecting and jobs are requiring that's my own fault I haven't looked internationally for for job listings to see what people are requiring in the US um as far as I know most companies have moved on from Redux and have kind of weeded it out of their their code bases but what I'm hearing pretty commonly is is that uh internationally it's still pretty um I guess in demand and so um my decision to remove redex from the old was it the advanced react course to the new one I can't remember I removed it from one course to its refresh and um yeah I've gotten quite a bit of uh I guess feedback that says hey we we still want Redux because people are asking for it so think it will be on my radar like it will be something that eventually will find its way back on a scrimba um some kind of redex course it'll likely not be a part of a react course um but it will just be its own its own course so uh there's no formal plans for it but it's it's definitely on the back of my mind um because of the feedback that I've gotten from you guys good t i yes h hello to those of you just joining us H are hello to you and Julia V has shared this intriguing Emoji think is to hard eyes and some very happy teeth so hello to you now this is a fairly big question tus is included in the front end road map or a separate course so what this question is referring to is um um scrimber frontend career path this is our Flagship course on scrimo H's asking is it in there which currently it isn't but dot dot dot Bob will it ever be added do you think I don't know I honestly don't know I I am concerned like the concerns I have about it there's pros and cons the concerns I have about it one technically speaking we would have to re-record everything in the whole core in the whole career path um and so it would be a very difficult thing to just introduce into the beginning because then we would have to have everything else after it already prepared in typescript um secondly I I really am concerned about people conflating the core of JavaScript with what typescript adds to it um and I guess there's an argument to be made that like we we just don't need to do that we don't need to know the difference just learn typescript from the beginning and it will solve a lot of kind of common issues that people run into um but I'm still concerned about it um so kind of thinking through that I suspect what will happen is we will pick a point toward the end of the career path that we put in typescript if it ends up in the career path um or there will be sort of a A continuing education that happens at the end of the career path where people can pick what their next course is going to be so they get to the end of the front-end career path and they can augment it with knowledge about typescript by taking a typescript and a typescript in react course um they can move on to backend and start learning node Express um and uh you know or or like even python or Ruby or some of kind of offering backend offering um or they maybe move on to like a full stack track where they continue their their react education with something like nextjs or or remix um so long term I Envision those being options but I do have some concerns and I see some uh some technical challenges with just uh throwing it in somewhere in the especially anywhere in like the first two-thirds of the career path not just on our side of having to re-record everything but uh yeah trying to make sure people aren't conflating typescript in JavaScript yeah I see that and I think there's it's a bit symbolic really of learning to code in general there are so many paths you can take and different ways you can do it that yeah there's no absolute truth I would say but um anyway the course is available on scrim should you wish to learn typescript it's all there just not in the career path as yet H now technical question here um which is rather interesting John oops just yeah I've been playing with this software because I haven't used it for a while and I'm discovering new features that do unexpected things anyway John while observing some discussion on button logic recently some people seem to indicate that event listeners in their JS file are superior to onclick methods used in the HTML do you have any insight b um I don't know that's that's tricky because I mean when you have um when you have event listeners in the JavaScript you can um I think you can more easily remove the event listeners if you ever need to um the the IC is a little more separated like you you have the markup dealing with the markup and you have the JavaScript dealing with the interactivity um and so I can definitely see some benefits in that the the reason I hesitate is because once you start learning react um you you kind of put it back into the markup so to speak it's you know event listeners are are not added upon um but rather like coexisting with the your react components um and so I don't know I it's uh I don't find myself doing like a ton of regular Dom manipulation JavaScript anymore I I typically even for small projects I can't uh I can't think of a great reason not to just be like well I react is so much faster for me to work in I'm just going to like build this landing page and react um if it has interactivity of course so um so so it's uh I think doesn't matter too much um but yes I think there are technically reasons that you doing something like ad event listener in your JavaScript um gives you some more flexibility than what you might have in just an on click in your markup yeah that's very good point thank you for the thought-provoking question pul has completed Bob's TS course very good for getting a foundation of how TS Works awesome and give me any feedback for those of you like reach out to me on Discord and let me know like hey this part was confusing because the course is still a work in progress so um I'm happy to to go back and clarify anything that was difficult or if you think like oh this would have been a great example to include here please let me know reach out to me on Discord absolutely um vanat here is saying are you upgrading the course with react 19 assuming you mean this one learn react in which case the answer is yes currently that's what Bob is working on in the meantime you can check out this one which is I'm hesitating it is free isn't it Bob yeah yep yeah which is also free um to give you a intro to react 19 and then very soon our learn react course will indeed be updated and um one question here from Ankit if anyone knows JavaScript how difficult will it be for the person to learn typescript and how much time on average what do you reckon Bob oh I don't I I couldn't say I mean learning typescript is is one of those things that will it the rabbit hole can go as deep as you want it to go um kind of like JavaScript like I can't uh I've been writing frontend code for 10 years now and I can't say like oh yeah I know all of JavaScript and so because there's always new stuff coming so it's like you can't never reach the top of the mount in it yeah yeah and I I just haven't dedicated myself to learn every last little API that exists in JavaScript and so um so it's kind of a fuzzy end I guess there's it's hard to say like I now know it perfectly um so yeah I would say as far as difficulty goes hope hopefully my course can mitigate a lot of the difficulty that I found when I was learning typescript um I try to make it as approachable as possible um obviously each person learns in a different way so it's it's hard to just say like oh it will be easy for you or it will be hard for you um and then my I mean my course is two my typescript course is I think two hours long um and that should give you a good grasp on uh on the very introductory parts of typ script and then we'll like apply typescript to the Dom and react in those later sections that we talked about uh if you include the time that it takes to like work on the challenges throughout I bet um I want to say four to five hours it'll probably take to do the course but that's a total guess um maybe someone who has taken it can can give me a I guess a better estimate of it and then just practice like just keep keep writing it like choose to any code that you write if you're wanting to learn typescript any other code that you write just always use typescript even if it feels like I I'm going to get stuck a bunch of times this is going to take me way longer than it would have um chat GPT is very good at typescript and uh very good at answering typescript questions a lot of times I would just copy my code uh paste it in and then copy the the like typescript warning or error that it was giving me paste it in and it would like explain what what was wrong and it was a a great way to learn as long as you don't just copy and paste the answer and not actually understand what what happened yeah good thank you for that mat tro says I am very happy learning at SCBA Yay good to hear um Clifford wants to know is it okay to write basic web apps in react rather than vanilla Js I think I think it is um I know in the beginning days of react there was a big concern with uh bundle size and how much you're sending down uh to the client and I think um if your users uh tend to live in areas that might have slow internet connections then it could legitimately be a concern and you might have to kind of hyper optimize your your uh apps performance um in which case maybe react is overkill for what you need that said um especially with some of the the uh like serers side react stuff that's happening um a lot of that can be mitigated uh and so we're kind of coming to a point in the react ecosystem where um enough server side um processing is happening that you can send down as little as possible to the client um and it will perform kind of similarly to having just a a static page like an HTML and CSS page and then of course if you have some interactivity um you know that has to be included as well so um you know the serers side react stuff generally uh expects that you're using a framework like uh nextjs or remix but um you know one of the things that I talk about in my performance section of the advanced react course is not to um prematurely optimize your stuff like don't spend so much time and effort into making it like as fast as possible if the speed really isn't a problem for most of your users um so I think it's okay to just write a basic web app and react um I also think it's fine to just be like oh this's going to be like two button clicks that I have to handle so just going to do it in HTML CSS and JavaScript because it's going to be so much faster and easier to do that um I I think we're kind of at a point uh where it doesn't matter too much um unless you have you know unless this is your income and you need to optimize it so that you increase your user base um I don't think it matters good to know one question here which I think comes up a lot with well maybe not a lot actually but anyway I've definitely seen it before um I feel like I've jumped into react way too fast since I've skipped dominant fation JavaScript fundamentals I'm feeling quite lost any advice for this learner B yeah I um I have some experience with this um having worked with students uh at the boot camp that I used to work out where they also were taught in a way that was like they just started with react in fact I hear um of boot camps even today that they teach HTML CSS and then react and it's uh it feels like um a disservice to me to jump so quickly into react because it's so easy to conflate what is react and what is Javascript and when eventually you know react dies dies out or you know we move on to the next big thing or you decide you want to learn spelt or whatever it might be if your core fundamentals aren't in check then it's going to be a difficult trans I and a difficult career um I I think that at scrimba we do a decent job of giving you a lot of time in the basics of HTML the basic fundamentals of HTML CSS and JavaScript and uh you know you build a number of projects and you build um uh you do a lot of challenges along the way that by the time you get to react you've had lots of like you've got JavaScript scripts under your belt like they've you know you've achieved that uh that level of knowledge that you need um if I can like recommend stuff outside of of scriba which I think scrimba is a a decent uh well I think scri is the best place to learn uh front end web of course but um I think a great way to get additional practice in your JavaScript is to go to a place like frontend mentors is that it front and mentors or is it front and MERS I always getting mixed up I think mentors is more HDML and CSS isn't it I think they have some interactivity stuff with JavaScript as well um so I maybe I don't know maybe I'm wrong but but still even even to get the fundamentals of of HTML and CSS um frontend mentors and then um I really enjoyed West boss's JavaScript 30 course it's a free course it uh is paced to do one um project a day for 30 days and I think that's a great way to make sure that you have um gotten your fundamentals um if you want additional practice beyond what scrimba already offers I think scrimba has enough in it but uh if I were to recommend outside resources um I've I've always liked enjoying or I've always uh liked recommending West boss's course yeah and here is our learn JavaScript course on scrimba if if you have not done this yet I strongly recommend that you do it's fair makes a lot of sense okay well time to wrap up now thank you for all your thought-provoking questions and for coming along to watch we'll finish with the big burning question from Stevie which is Mac OS or Windows for coding which do you prefer yeah uh you can code on whatever machine um you want and it uh it really in the end doesn't make too much of a difference I have a Mac because I like the Apple ecosystem myself um I like that it uses a a Unix based uh operating system like with whenever I open up a a terminal I can write in the same kind of uh lingo that I'm going to use if I open up like a digital ocean um virtual server um which is UNIX based and so but uh you know it's not that much more to learn a windows-based one or to just get a Unix style uh shell running on your Windows machine so um you like use what you have you you don't need to wait for a new machine um to to start your front end learning unless your machine is like a Raspberry Pi in which case you might be struggling I know some people who Le to code on a phone so it can be up there you go good well yes thanks again everyone for coming along and thank you Bob for taking time out of your busy schedule to chat to us all I suspect we'll be having more live streams here on the scrimber YouTube channel very soon so if you haven't done so already hit that subscribe button and then you'll see it appear in your YouTube feed hopefully any closing thoughts for the wonderful Watchers at home Bob um no just uh just keep keep plugging along keep learning um don't take too long of of breaks between your your learning sessions so that it can all stay fresh and engage in the community get get involved and it'll really keep you uh on your on your path you know this is advice for people looking to transition careers so um just keep at it as my K says thank you okay have a great day everyone speak to you again soon bye bye everyone